Wading in the Velvet Sea

Knowing the source of this question, I can't say too much. But knowing that there even exists long-term relationships whereby once partner gets the goods consistently and the other is 0 for the 21st century makes me get all green and shaky, in that Eric Bana kind of way.

I think you can tell what kind of lover someone will be like the second you hop into bed together. Essentially, this is really a question for the ladies, cause I've yet to meet or hear of a man that can't... well you know. So, on that note, I think three tries is a reasonable amount of time to figure out if you're compatible. You could try coaching and possibly hook up longer, but let's face it, jackhammering isn't the way for us to get the big O. An orgasm happens when force meets finesse and they tango.

10 years.....and it was a looooooong 10 years.

Ryan can correct me if I'm wrong, but we're not talking about "the two of them try but can't quite make it work via the horizontal rhumba" so much as "the guy doesn't even so much as offer alternative methods." He thinks (for her) it should all be about the journey (which is easy for him to say, since he arrives at the destination.)

As Heather said, this is definitely more a question for ladies. It would all depend on the guy, if he's willing to work at pleasing me, or if he just wants to "jackhammer away" to his promised land. Generally, the first time is usually awkward because you are each figuring the other out. If there is no Big O on the first go round, I'd judge his response ("Can I do something different?" or "Sucks for you!"). If it's the latter, see ya. Selfish in bed is usually selfish all around.

Also, why are women the only folks responding to this? Come on, fellows! Guys like this are completely ruining it for the rest of us! Where's the outrage?

Perhaps they are all too scared. Or they see you as the voice of the sexually unselfish man and feel no need to speak up.

It's not about unselfishness. It's about common freakin' courtesy, yo. Me and the Commander feel very strongly about this.

We do not, however, feel each other strongly, so no one even think about suggesting it.

What's an orgasm?

I was in a relationship a very long time before the guy ever asked if I had experienced Le Grande O. He was shocked when I told him that I hadn't, and I hadn't ever with anyone. But thank God he was a good guy who cared about it and spent a lot of time trying to get things right.

But yeah, I've had guys not ask, not care, or ask and then not care.

Funny that sex isn't really considered sex unless there is penetration (rendering more female-friendly activities like oral sex as "foreplay") and sex usually is considered over when the guy has an orgasm. Susan B., where you at?

I got to say, any guy who isn't willing to invest time in discovering the female orgasm is a complete moron who probably doesn't even appreciate things like chocolate chip cookies, puppies, baseball and oxygen. And also, he's probably a Communist.

These guys make me angry... and they wouldn't like me when I'm angry. (Yeah, the Hulk jokes have started a week early. Deal.)

There has yet to be a man that was "good enough" to deserve the actual credit for that in my book.

Hence the restaurant scene in "When Harry Met Sally" Meg let the cat out of the bag.

Totally forgot to answer the question at large. Um I have given 6 years to one relationship with false beliefs. But if I stop to think about it, thats insane isn;t it.

My ex felt that faking it was the same as lying to him. He was very concerned that I achieve the Big O, but if I wasn't, he didn't want me to fake it just to please him. He understood that sometimes it jsut doesn't happen, but that it didn't mean the sex wasn't good.
Commander, I second that emotion. They aren't worth the wet spot.

I think that when I find the right lover, he will know its not fake.

real live answer. 3 years.

And commander, could you picture a battle with the Hulk and General Zod? Things that make you go hmmmm.

I almost swore off this whole discussion because it was making me too angry, but I have to come back for the Hulk vs. Zod question. (GEEK ALERT!) Basically, a Kryptonian would kick Hulk's ass. The demonstration for this is in the ultimately pointless DC vs. Marvel series from back in '97 where Superman and the Hulk went toe to toe. Even with a completely unimaginatice writer (Superman just uses brute strength and completely forgets things like Heat Vision, Super-speed, Super-breath and the fact that if he tosses the Hulk into orbit, well, only one of them can fly, now can't they?) Superman beat the Hulk rather handily. Even presuming that Zod is a little less powerful than Superman, he should be able to defeat the Hulk and, unlike Superman, would not be hindered by qualms about killing the Hulk.

You can all go about your business now.

Any man who truly cares about his lover would never want her to fake an orgasm. If it doesn't happen the first time there's always the second. Practice makes perfect, ya know. And sometimes it takes a little while to really know how to turn your partner on... honesty speeds up that process.

To answer your question, I wouldn't consider that a reason to dump someone.

Why is the O discussion getting your undies in such a wad? Women like men who are attentive to their needs, not the selfish pricks who brought about this poll. Don't let the bastards get you down!

Props to Lori- she understands exactly what I was thinking and couldn't get into words. Well put.

This conversation is actually making me blush a little bit! Okay...erm...how do I put this?

I certainly believe that it's more an issue of caring than compatibility. If a guy was obviously trying to please me and was open to experimentation (and perhaps a bit of coaching), I'd be willing to wait forever as long as the rest of the relationship was holding up. If that's not the case, then from personal experience I've given it a too-blind-to-see-he-was-in-it-for-himself six months.

Now, as for Hulk and General Zod, I think you explained it perfectly, Foley.
???????
:)

Good point with the kryptonian thing, I wasn't an avid hulk watcher so i am a bit on the ignorant side of his > or < strengths. As my mind runs amuck and ryan cringes that general zod was even mentioned , I wonder if the bionic woman could in fact be a hulk rival. Sorry all, got distracted.

And now for something completely different.

Great. Now "The Hulk" and "orgasm" are forever to be linked in my psyche.

I guess the issues at hand here is not those guys who just are bad in bed. It's more the "I don't care if you come so long as you satisfy my booty-call cravings."

And yes, faking is freakin' TERRIBLE! Ack. We're talking "Problem Child 2" terrible.

Mike - I don't think that any of the female respondents believe simply not having an orgasm is grounds to break up with someone. As you can see by the entries, it's more about how that person responds to your lack of orgasm that prompts the dumping.

Hulk vs. Superman
No holds barred grappling-style adamantium cage match? I say the Hulk wins hands down. Superman doesn't have the stamina to go toe-to-toe with the Hulk as his solar energy supply would eventually burn out while the Hulk would just get stronger & stronger.

Now out in the open where Superman could use hit & run tactics and fight from a distance? That he could probably win. Personally I think he'd punk out and drop kick the Hulk into space.

On the sex question - Chances are if either party is selfish/unattentive in the bedroom then they're probably just as much of sh%thead outside the bedroom.

knowing that I can honestly say I have never faked it, like I implied no one has been good enough for the credit yet, its something that a couple kinda has to get the feel for. I agree with you lori. If you really love someone, the BIG O isn't a huge issue. And totally agree ryan, with the acky faking, its like a women who is after a millionaire. Its not real love.

Ryan-dude:

Ah! But how can you tell if we women are faking it or not?

I can't...thus my anger!

Seriously. No point. If you're not gonna...ya know, lemmee know and I'll stop. If you do something resembling one, I don't wanna have it be a mind game...is it an orgasm or is it Memorex? Not cool.

I realize an orgasm isn't necessary for every sexual encounter to make it good, but don't fake. Bad juju.

I would Never, EVER fake an orgasm. I have every right to one as my partner. I can't believe and don't understand why women do. Are they too shy to ask him to do what works? It took me a while to learn to experience the "big o" with a partner (and it does take women practice - read up on it, people) but he always made sure I got mine in other ways. My man is very conscious of such things and wouldn't dream of experiencing the pleasure alone - I sure hope to heaven, hell or whomever is listening that we aren't the anomoly couple!!! The books I've read - the serious books on the subject - suggest that we are, though, as do many of the ladies in this comment box.... ?!?!?! If a guy wasn't interested in my pleasure, and I couldn't talk with him about it, after the second or third time I'd find a new guy!

Wait a minute - this question isn't that simple. What kind of O are we talkin' about here? There's the vaginal O and the clitoral O. The guy should always be able to do at least the latter. If not, then there are communication issues. I'd date someone as long as it took, because eventually you should be able to get both. If not, then maybe it's just not jiving between the two of you mentally.

Recently I heard on a sex talk show that there is a difference between ejaculation and male orgasm. That is, one does not necessarily imply the other.

This blew my mind. Men, is this true? Have us ladies been thinking we've been hitting a home run every game when really we might not have been?

The plain and simple fact that like ten times the amount of people have responded to this than your rant of radiohead points to a single and obvious conclusion. Stick to sex dude. The people have spoken.

"Recently I heard on a sex talk show that there is a difference between ejaculation and male orgasm. That is, one does not necessarily imply the other."

Very true, but there are very few ladies out there who care to see the difference (how's THAT for turning the tables on the age-old boring "he only wants one for himself" argument?). Personally, I've been in a relationship with someone before for several months with her achieving and me not. Never bothered me - it's most definitely the long journeys that matter. The destination is just there as a good cut-off point before you realise you have to go to work in an hour. ;)

Oh... and how to tell if a woman's faking? If she actually stops eating the burger and ignores the tennis finals, you know she's getting there... hehehe

I think that if there was an answer to the complete and total bliss of two partners, we'd all be well....happy little campers. But honestly in high school remember it starts out when guys are sixteen -linoleum turns them on, and girls are like W-h-a-t-e-v-e-r. So the whole argument that guys are horn balls is all due to our different hormonal growth, so what I mean is it could be that some women even in their 20's don't "O" because they haven't reached their heightened hormone level, so maybe women peak intellectually before boys and boys peak horney before girls. Maybe that is why Demi Moore is dating Ashton Kutcher.

Susan, Spike, and jada speak truly, although, I'd like to add to jada's comment that some studies show that women don't o as often because of social conditioning - they just can't relax, sex, they've learned is dirty.

Even post-1960's this still exists (to a lesser extent, thank God) in our society. I read a fairly recent book written by a sex therapist who had female clients in their 60s and 70s. One woman, divorced from her husband, achieved her first o via self-stimulation in her 70s - after that, she was pissed as hell at her ex for never sharing the pleasure with her, she never knew it could be so good. (He's a bastard. LOL!)

Some men have these same problems - the question is, is it as common among men as women or is that just the media's slant? Do men share it with the women (since social stigma about men's sexual performance is in some ways worse than it is for women)? Methinks it's not just the media - given male sexual stimulation organs are on the Outside and therefore much easier to, er, stimulate...

My point still sticks, however, partners should tell the other what's going on so they can work it out --- as a team. ;)

Dont know what this is worth but my SO told me that he would have never married me if he couldnt deliver the big O. I asked why and he said...well I guess thats how I'll allways know you really really like me.

The comment about women learning sex is dirty is a good point. Even today, there's a double standard - if you're a guy and bagging a lot of chicks, you're a player...if you're a girl sleeping around, you're a ho.

Women actually have quite a few advantages in the bedroom. For one thing, we can have multiple orgasms; something men can only dream of. We can last longer and keep going like the energizer bunny, and it's been suggested by research that our sexual encounters are often more intense. So it's a shame that so many women are going without good sex! Either they aren't comfortable enough with their own sexuality, or they're uncomfortable communicating their needs to their partner. Me, I'll draw a damn road map if necessary. Life is too short to engage in boring sex!

(I'm female.) Why on earth would you remain intimate with someone who doesn't care about your sexual pleasure? Gah!

Statistically, very few women have orgasms from vaginal penetration alone. Wham bam thank you ma'am just doesn't do it for us. Get to know the clitoris, the clitoris will be your friend.

Not every intimate experience has to have an orgasm attached, granted. But if there's a significant imbalance... well, that's a bad bad sign. Either there's a lack of communication or a lack of consideration or both.

The longest I lasted in the no-O relationship was two years - but that was many moons ago. I wouldn't have any part of it now. If it's not happening, then neither is the relationship.

As the inspiration of this discussion - thank you all very much for your comments and advice - I feel the need to vent. Almost 7 months of monogamy now, and 1 orgasm from him. As in, 1. And I never fake. Finally, last week, after months of pressure, he went down on me for the first time - a major psychological breakthrough, but not orgasm inducing.

The thing is, he is very generous in other parts of our relationship, but when it comes to sex he's downright selfish. Whattup wid dat?

To quote Stephen from 'Braveheart:' "He wasn't right in the head."

O-less-a ~

Here's a thought: maybe he's one of those unfortunate guys who was brought up to think that women who really ENJOY sex (i.e., get off) are whores. if you like it too much, you'll probably end up sleeping with any ol' guy, right?

Perhaps you could re-educate him to understand that if you don't really enjoy sex with HIM, then you're far more likely to go looking for someone with whom you WILL.